Initial Hero AI - Guild Wars Forums

Baratus · Aug 06, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Is the initial hero AI set low or something? I have noted that each time I first get Dunkoro, he tends to not heal until the situation is really dire. He feels that using his staff on enemies is more important than healing Koss and I. I can heal Koss using "Imbue Health", but I can't really heal myself. I really rely on him, but initially he is subpar to the henchmen healers.

On the flip-side of that, after he gains about four levels, he starts healing quite well. In fact, fromt he get-go I equip him with some end-game skills from Prophecies that I have had for eons, including an elite. It's not that he doesn't have skills to use or mana to use them, but that he chooses not to.

What's up with that?

HawkofStorms · Aug 06, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Nope. Notice that you can set your heroes to "aggresive, defensive, or passive" modes, that little icon in the right of the heroes skill usage panel (a dagger symbol, a shield symbol, and a bird symbol, respectively). Generally, setting casters to shield/defensive mode is best.

Anyways, certain builds/combinations hero AI is just too dumb to figure out.

Take assassin heroes. The skill seeping wound is a hex that gives extra degen to foes already suffering from bleeding or poison. Black spider strike, is an attack skill that requires a hex to inflict poison.

Because the AI doesn't see anybody with poision, it won't cast seeping wound. Because black spider strike requires a hex, it can't use black spider.
Even though it is obvious to a player to cast seeping and then use black spider, AI can't think of that.

Some general monk hero suggestions. Don't use touch spells/skills. They don't know that they are best used only on themselves, and will often run right up to warriors on the front line to use them. In addition, don't use "common sense" stuff like draw conditions followed by mending touch, again the AI just isn't smart enough to use it.
The AI can not be made smarter, you just have to provide the AI with a smarter build that it can understand. If a problem exists, consider changing your monk's build around, because that is the problem.

IrisLee · Aug 06, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

It's honestly just poor AI, that's all, when you think about it Heros/henchmen are only supposed to be able to do so much, they can't match a players skills.

ajc2123 · Aug 07, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I have a personal belief that heroes have the capacity to learn, but its a very slim chance theory

And they shall laugh at me for it, but I shall keep believing!

Bruce Leeroy · Aug 07, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

I've noticed that when I give a hero a new bar, that they don't use all the skills. All I do is micro all the skills for them once and they kinda learn to use them better.
I'll go with the hero learning curve as well.

TheodenKing · Aug 07, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

So does that mean that Dunkoro is eventually going to take over first the Anet servers, then the internet, then build Skynet?

Baratus · Aug 07, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Awesome, Skynet FTW! I'd love to hack something besides IPv4 and IPv6.

Anyway, I use a lot of 5 energy spells such as dwayna's kiss and orison of healing. I always give him ressurect and healing breeze, but he also brings along "remove hex". It's just that he refuses to use them until most players are one hit from death. By level ten though, he is damn good for a bot.

joshuarodger · Aug 07, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

healing breeze is a terrible skill to give a hero. any sort of degen and they just spam it and crap out all their energy.

a couple skills that can really help with energy are [[signet of rej] and [[glyph of less]

they're terrible with prot also but seem to do ok with [[reversal of fo] and [[aegis]

just some notes from my experience

Baratus · Aug 07, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

That's odd, HB seems to be one of his lesser-used skills, even when we're under the effects of degenerative spells and conditions. He does use it from time to time though, but it always seems like the right time to use it. If I catch him spamming it for no reason, I'll obviously remove it in favor of another spell, but not yet.

*Darcy* · Aug 07, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Have you read the stickied Hero Guide in the Campfire section. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264

It gives a lot of info about how to get your heroes to use skills.

HawkofStorms · Aug 07, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Healing breeze is ONLY used by AI to counter degen, and, mathematically speaking it isn't that strong of a heal for the energy cost, and since its regen it heals over time, it makes it "slower" then other heals, making it a pretty bad skill by most analytic standards.

And no, heroes DO NOT "learn." It is entirely about the skill bar. In fact, give a N/E hero a Searing Flames build, and he will use it the exact same way an Ele hero would.

Baratus · Aug 07, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

They don't learn? Seems my copy of Dunkoro has learned. I got him at lv6, and he is now lv10. Same skill bar the entire time. He now uses skills in the correct order and only casts HB to counter degen if he cannot use "remove hex" on the degenerative skill. Granted, I sat there and manually had to do it for him a dozen or so times, but he seems to be halfway intelligent.

Aug 06, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35	#1
Baratus Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Elizabethtown, NC Guild: Deathkings of The Dark Citadel Profession: D/Me	Initial Hero AI Is the initial hero AI set low or something? I have noted that each time I first get Dunkoro, he tends to not heal until the situation is really dire. He feels that using his staff on enemies is more important than healing Koss and I. I can heal Koss using "Imbue Health", but I can't really heal myself. I really rely on him, but initially he is subpar to the henchmen healers. On the flip-side of that, after he gains about four levels, he starts healing quite well. In fact, fromt he get-go I equip him with some end-game skills from Prophecies that I have had for eons, including an elite. It's not that he doesn't have skills to use or mana to use them, but that he chooses not to. What's up with that?

Aug 07, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02	#4
ajc2123 Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: North of the wall Profession: Me/	I have a personal belief that heroes have the capacity to learn, but its a very slim chance theory And they shall laugh at me for it, but I shall keep believing! Last edited by ajc2123; Aug 07, 2008 at 12:05 AM // 00:05..

Aug 07, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56	#10
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Have you read the stickied Hero Guide in the Campfire section. http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264 It gives a lot of info about how to get your heroes to use skills. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Aug 06, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58	#2
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Nope. Notice that you can set your heroes to "aggresive, defensive, or passive" modes, that little icon in the right of the heroes skill usage panel (a dagger symbol, a shield symbol, and a bird symbol, respectively). Generally, setting casters to shield/defensive mode is best. Anyways, certain builds/combinations hero AI is just too dumb to figure out. Take assassin heroes. The skill seeping wound is a hex that gives extra degen to foes already suffering from bleeding or poison. Black spider strike, is an attack skill that requires a hex to inflict poison. Because the AI doesn't see anybody with poision, it won't cast seeping wound. Because black spider strike requires a hex, it can't use black spider. Even though it is obvious to a player to cast seeping and then use black spider, AI can't think of that. Some general monk hero suggestions. Don't use touch spells/skills. They don't know that they are best used only on themselves, and will often run right up to warriors on the front line to use them. In addition, don't use "common sense" stuff like draw conditions followed by mending touch, again the AI just isn't smart enough to use it. The AI can not be made smarter, you just have to provide the AI with a smarter build that it can understand. If a problem exists, consider changing your monk's build around, because that is the problem.

Aug 06, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59	#3
IrisLee Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: England Guild: None Profession: Mo/	It's honestly just poor AI, that's all, when you think about it Heros/henchmen are only supposed to be able to do so much, they can't match a players skills.

Aug 07, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47	#5
Bruce Leeroy Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2007	I've noticed that when I give a hero a new bar, that they don't use all the skills. All I do is micro all the skills for them once and they kinda learn to use them better. I'll go with the hero learning curve as well.

Aug 07, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19	#6
TheodenKing Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DoA Guild: Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk) Profession: N/Me	So does that mean that Dunkoro is eventually going to take over first the Anet servers, then the internet, then build Skynet?

Aug 07, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51	#7
Baratus Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Elizabethtown, NC Guild: Deathkings of The Dark Citadel Profession: D/Me	Awesome, Skynet FTW! I'd love to hack something besides IPv4 and IPv6. Anyway, I use a lot of 5 energy spells such as dwayna's kiss and orison of healing. I always give him ressurect and healing breeze, but he also brings along "remove hex". It's just that he refuses to use them until most players are one hit from death. By level ten though, he is damn good for a bot.

Aug 07, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07	#8
joshuarodger Unbanned Join Date: Jan 2008 Guild: Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] -- IGN: Swirly Profession: Mo/	healing breeze is a terrible skill to give a hero. any sort of degen and they just spam it and crap out all their energy. a couple skills that can really help with energy are [[signet of rej] and [[glyph of less] they're terrible with prot also but seem to do ok with [[reversal of fo] and [[aegis] just some notes from my experience

Aug 07, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34	#9
Baratus Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Elizabethtown, NC Guild: Deathkings of The Dark Citadel Profession: D/Me	That's odd, HB seems to be one of his lesser-used skills, even when we're under the effects of degenerative spells and conditions. He does use it from time to time though, but it always seems like the right time to use it. If I catch him spamming it for no reason, I'll obviously remove it in favor of another spell, but not yet.

Aug 07, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21	#11
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Healing breeze is ONLY used by AI to counter degen, and, mathematically speaking it isn't that strong of a heal for the energy cost, and since its regen it heals over time, it makes it "slower" then other heals, making it a pretty bad skill by most analytic standards. And no, heroes DO NOT "learn." It is entirely about the skill bar. In fact, give a N/E hero a Searing Flames build, and he will use it the exact same way an Ele hero would.

Aug 07, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19	#12
Baratus Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Elizabethtown, NC Guild: Deathkings of The Dark Citadel Profession: D/Me	They don't learn? Seems my copy of Dunkoro has learned. I got him at lv6, and he is now lv10. Same skill bar the entire time. He now uses skills in the correct order and only casts HB to counter degen if he cannot use "remove hex" on the degenerative skill. Granted, I sat there and manually had to do it for him a dozen or so times, but he seems to be halfway intelligent.